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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:43 am 
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"Rocket to Russia" is the testament of Junk Culture and a record, which I did not understand when I first heard it but over time I think it is a solid record through and through. That is what the Ramones represent the attitude of not giving a fuck about anything at all. And yes they were influential in the UK, they were just easy to sell. They were sold as delinquent males on the verge of breakdown and that was lapped up by the young masses.

KISS was a joke and still is.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:55 am 
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unspeakable wrote:
nation of ulysses


I LOVE Nation of Ulysses! I saw a show by them at the Duchess of York in Leeds back in the day and they all sprayed lighter fuel onto their shoes and played the first song with their shoes on fire! There was a little rug or mat or something on stage and it started to smoulder, my friend was waving a glass of water at Ian Svenonius shouting at him to put the fire out and he just jumped down onto his knees, pulled a comb out of his pocket and started combing his hair! They were great - I loved the albums though and the lyrics and the whole daft manifesto they had. Ian used to write all these little pamphlets - all about eating suger and not going to sleep and having a revolution and stuff!

I saw the Make Up at the Duchess too and they were awesome. I dunno what Ian's doing these days but I wish he'd tour again! The guy is punk rock!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:52 pm 
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Rocky wrote:
"Rocket to Russia" is the testament of Junk Culture and a record, which I did not understand when I first heard it but over time I think it is a solid record through and through. That is what the Ramones represent the attitude of not giving a fuck about anything at all. And yes they were influential in the UK, they were just easy to sell. They were sold as delinquent males on the verge of breakdown and that was lapped up by the young masses.

KISS was a joke and still is.


I think the Ramones were more than just easy to sell in the UK. Joe Strummer and Johnny Rotten both cite the Ramones first ever gig in London as being hugely influential to the UK punk movement.

Kiss might be a joke but as a young lad in 1975 it was Kiss who blew my mind first and started my love of music. I'm sure there are millions of people now my age who have a similiar story. So, at the very least they deserve credit for turning a generation onto music.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:40 pm 
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nellcote wrote:
unspeakable wrote:
nation of ulysses


I LOVE Nation of Ulysses! I saw a show by them at the Duchess of York in Leeds back in the day and they all sprayed lighter fuel onto their shoes and played the first song with their shoes on fire! There was a little rug or mat or something on stage and it started to smoulder, my friend was waving a glass of water at Ian Svenonius shouting at him to put the fire out and he just jumped down onto his knees, pulled a comb out of his pocket and started combing his hair! They were great - I loved the albums though and the lyrics and the whole daft manifesto they had. Ian used to write all these little pamphlets - all about eating suger and not going to sleep and having a revolution and stuff!

I saw the Make Up at the Duchess too and they were awesome. I dunno what Ian's doing these days but I wish he'd tour again! The guy is punk rock!


you've never heard of the mighty weird war? your life has been meaningless up until this point.

Yeah, i love some make up and NOU.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Rocky wrote:
"Rocket to Russia" is the testament of Junk Culture and a record, which I did not understand when I first heard it but over time I think it is a solid record through and through. That is what the Ramones represent the attitude of not giving a fuck about anything at all. And yes they were influential in the UK, they were just easy to sell. They were sold as delinquent males on the verge of breakdown and that was lapped up by the young masses.

KISS was a joke and still is.


First of all, I didn't read British press when the Ramones came out, but has anything changed with the British press? They love the Gallagher Brothers, the Pete Doherty's, and Amy Winehouse's of the world.

You say "delinquent" as if that were an act or some predetermined marketing strategy.

You should read "Please Kill Me" by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain. You'll see first-hand accounts of "delinquency". Dee Dee used to give blowjobs to dirty old men on "53rd and 3rd" to score money for drugs. Dee Dee and their circle of friends were involved in knife fights. They did, in fact, "sniff glue". They hung out with drug addicts, prostitutes, drag queens, street thugs, etc.

Although the the whole, adopt the same last name, dress the same, etc might seem like a cartoonish marketing plan, it was originally done as solidarity, as in we're all a team and nobody is better than the other. It was a reaction to bloated 70's arena rock, we're the individual star was valued.

Although the Ramones image was probably profited off of, it's original intent was worthy and legitimate, if you ask me.

I


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:35 am 
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unspeakable wrote:
nellcote wrote:
unspeakable wrote:
nation of ulysses


I LOVE Nation of Ulysses! I saw a show by them at the Duchess of York in Leeds back in the day and they all sprayed lighter fuel onto their shoes and played the first song with their shoes on fire! There was a little rug or mat or something on stage and it started to smoulder, my friend was waving a glass of water at Ian Svenonius shouting at him to put the fire out and he just jumped down onto his knees, pulled a comb out of his pocket and started combing his hair! They were great - I loved the albums though and the lyrics and the whole daft manifesto they had. Ian used to write all these little pamphlets - all about eating suger and not going to sleep and having a revolution and stuff!

I saw the Make Up at the Duchess too and they were awesome. I dunno what Ian's doing these days but I wish he'd tour again! The guy is punk rock!


you've never heard of the mighty weird war? your life has been meaningless up until this point.

Yeah, i love some make up and NOU.


I do have a Wierd War album from a few years back - I just guessed Ian Svenonius might have other things happening by now? He always seemed to keep moving forwards.

Re the Ramones debate - I think what they were in the beginning and what they bacame later on is almost, for me, like two separate bands. I don't think the UK had ever seen or heard anything like them in 1976 when they first played. The UK press was totally different in it's approach to alternative music and culture (what little there was of it then) compared to what it is now too - both the tabloids and the music press.

If you've ever seen a copy of NME from '76 or '77 you'll know it was basically very humourless and full of beardy- wierdy Barclay James Harvest type bands, desparately trying to make the tired careers of dusty old musos still seem relevant to the times, which they weren't. If you were lucky you'd find a couple of articles on punk bands, stuffed away in a corner. It makes for very interesting reading to see just how radical the early punk movement genuinely was at that time and I don't think you can take it away from the Ramones that they showed the British fledging punks how it should be done.

Similarly with the general press - there was genuine shock and abhorrence at the fashions, the actions (spitting, pogo-ing etc) not to mention the music of punk rock. When the Sex Pistols swore on live television - the country went mental - half of the Anarchy In the UK tour had to be cancelled because of it, people really were outraged and afraid of it - town councils actively banned them! I have to say - Winehouse, Docherty and the Gallaghers are the tabloids' friends and don't really compare to the reaction that punk got in the early days. There's a mutual product shifting love affair going on between them and the media that suits everyone, thank you very much. But it wasn't like that then.

I was pretty young in 76/77 but remember the stasis of fashion and music - and for a short time, until of course it became acceptable and even started to parody itself, how shocking punk was to the UK.

The Julian Temple film "The Filth and The Fury" is well worth watching for the footage and capturing the feel of mid 70's Britain and the impact of the Pistols and others who had been at those first Ramones gigs in the UK.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:20 pm 
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I remember reading a Village Voice article in the seventies about "Punk" rock. It told the story of the Clash and punk in the UK and Polystyrene and X-Ray Spex doing a show and everyone wass gobbing her and the band. It was so aweful that the band had to retreat backstage but Poly stood there and took it all over her table cloth dress. Standing there dripping and teetering covered in gobThats punk. And one more quick one about the Ramones. They played a gig in Tijuana, Mexico and the show had to end early because of too much moshing, pogoing and just plain ol' violence, well the ensuing riot literally LEVELED the club. it was completely raised to the ground, I saw that in Rolling Stone but have never been able to find the story again.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:22 pm 
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skyway wrote:
Although the the whole, adopt the same last name, dress the same, etc might seem like a cartoonish marketing plan, it was originally done as solidarity, as in we're all a team and nobody is better than the other. It was a reaction to bloated 70's arena rock, we're the individual star was valued.

Although the Ramones image was probably profited off of, it's original intent was worthy and legitimate, if you ask me.

I


Agreed.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:45 pm 
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excellnt rock'n'roll discourse(fascinatng nellcote..the ramones became cartoonish for me,but no doubt it wasa marketng thing..the great rock'n'roll swindle..amother reason i hate record companies..
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:36 pm 
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bit late on this one but here goes...

The Saints....Australias finest
The Ramones....New Yorks finest
The Clash....1st album only
Wire.....12XU etc
Buzzcocks....early stuff (spiral scratch) then went a bit too pop for me
The Fall very early stuff was good punk
Ed Banger and the nosebleeds
ATV
X ray spex
Sex Pistols...though 'Bollocks' still sounds a bit overproduced to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:42 pm 
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shiva's headband wrote:
blood meridian wrote:
great list,exceptt i never bought the ramones..like kiss,too much ofa cartoon.



Great point. Ramones to me always seemed a bit of a joke too. The "man's" version of what punks look and sound like. Their movie didn't really help sell them to me either. But, are they not given at least some credit for kick starting the punk movement over in the UK?


The Ramones first album is a belter....play it through speaker and just listen to the bass and drums.....thats how i learnt to play bass (kind of) listenning to that as a spotty 15 yr old :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:41 pm 
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blood meridian wrote:
excellnt rock'n'roll discourse(fascinatng nellcote..the ramones became cartoonish for me,but no doubt it wasa marketng thing..the great rock'n'roll swindle..amother reason i hate record companies..
Image

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Thank you kindly Blood. I'm no historian but the context of punk is really interesting. When Steve Jones of the Pistols used the word "Fuck" live on television (and then said it a few more times!) it was only the fourth time it had ever been heard on British TV if you can imagine! One guy watching it at home actually kicked his tv screen in!

I heard an interview once with John Peel where he recalled seeing punk girls for the first time and said how he was initially really shocked by their appearance and how he thought they should be taken into care by the authorities, but then seeing the same person a week later he realised how great it looked and wished he could do it himself. So it kind of gives you some idea of how the general public must have felt.

I think the Ramones first album is pretty untouchable and I like the first three albums a lot - even after that they did some good tracks over the years but yeah, the cartoony image did take over. Although the cartoons on Rocket To Russia and Road To Ruin were done by John Holstrom who was cartoonist and editor of Punk magazine which was an important part of the New York punk heritage. But in the long run I don't think that approach to their image did their cred any favours.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:18 am 
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check out the pistols bootleg SPUNK
it has glen matlock on it before they chucked em
doesnt sound over produced

it is better than the bollocks lp, sounds rougher and they do songs not on the bollocks album
cant beat it.

they should have released these tracks instead.
brilliant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spunk_(Sex_Pistols_album)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:51 pm 
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Nellcote, you do make some excellent points. I can't help but think ten-twelve years prior to Punk the UK was in a tissy about the then youth movement in the early/mid 60's. The Beatles were the least of their worries and the Rolling Stones were the poster children of their "rebellion" but it was The Pretty Things who were seen as true thugs and represented sheer terror on their "civilized isle". In fact, at the height of the Pretties fame (which, to be fair, they were never THAT famous)Parliament held special meetings about their concerns over rock and roll music, long hair and what it was doing to the future of the youth.

Then in '76 Punk came....and a new wave of rebellion swept the country and terrified the parents. People had forgotten about Keith Richards, Phil May and Viv Prince...now it was the snot nosed Pistols who represented their fear.

Today, the NME just loves to embellish all their "sordid rock tales" because they know that's what sells their shit paper. Wasn't (or isn't) The Sun the #1 selling newspaper in England? That says a lot!

Shame it's not the Guardian...(but then again, most Americans get their news from CNN and Fox so it's just as bad over here).


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